Curse

Akilles · Aug 14, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

it works much better now, what hurt it was the way they kicked it off and reset EVERYTHING to 100gp to start. people bought up all the obvious expensive stuff and thus superiors are hard to find and super expensive...more so than b4. why? the sellers now dictate the price, u have no traders with say monk runes to get an idea of price. the system is fine now, just Arenanet screwed up royally but not putting caps on the price cuts of items like Ecto, Rubie, Vigor Runes, Absorption...etc.

Jade · Aug 14, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I'm so tired of this. It happened days ago and people think that by bitching about it that Anet will do something about it? Good Luck with that crusade. In the mean time I'm gonna get on my phone and call the waaaaaaambulance.

Seron Dalar · Aug 15, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo02

if you free yourself from the idea you need lots of gold to have fun in GW you will be much happier.

Thank you, Siddhartha.

More on topic... the economy patch is much better than it was before. Quit whining.

Kobun King · Aug 15, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

I'm so tired of this. It happened days ago and people think that by bitching about it that Anet wqill do something about it? Good Luck with that crusade. In the mean time I'm gonna get on my phone and call the waaaaaaambulance.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Sluggs · Aug 15, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

WTH?
The fix to the economy was overdue.

Anet did not fix the ECONOMY. They fixed the NPC traders which they broke and then broke even worse in the two previous updates.

The working of the economy is determined mostly by what players do. Anet controls monster drops, they control merchant and crafter prices. The NPC traders are there as intermediaries who, for a fee, provide a much more convenient way for players to trade between themselves. The way everyone here talks about the NPC traders as though they are the economy demonstrates how important the service they provide is.

The NPC traders look to me like they are working as they did before the July 13th update. Except they now have global stock, the minimum sell price is reduced, and prices seem to be rounded to less than 2 significant digits (for example black dye sells for 6k or 6.5k or 7k and nothing in between).

The large stock and rock bottom pricing right after the update was a fiasco.

The trader pricing algorithms appear to have the same problem they had from the begining in that they have trouble finding a realistic market value for some items. This is either because the algorithms don't work when the traders have no or very little stock and/or because the low starting prices mean no one sells to the traders and there is not enough turn over for the algorithms to work.

At the moment the traders seem to have a problem with all superior runes (bar vigor and absorption), ecto, and strangely fur. These are all selling for below the value players put on them and are constantly out of stock. Eventually the pricing algorithms may find a true market value for these items but the algorithms could obviously be improved - perhaps that is what ANet were trying to do when they broke them.

I don't know what Anet are trying to do with the material trader. Shortly after the update they pulled all the stock of rare material from him. The material trader still trades rare material but with no stock and minimum buy prices I doubt we will ever see him offering prices at which players will sell.

blackbird71 · Aug 15, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Bravo Kampfleks and Dargull, very well put!

I too was upset at first about the instant money some made off the economy reset, and while I think the initial implementation was poor, the long term effect seems to be worthwhile.

As to the original poster, next time you buy a game, take the time to actually read the box!!!

From inside the front flap:
"You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate."(emphasis added)

So if you really want to complain that people who have played the game for months no longer have an advantage over other players, go somewhere else! That wasn't the original point of this game, it never was, and it's good to see that it hasn't changed. One of the best parts of this game is it was actually designed for people who have a real life! Those of us who put in regular hours at work or school, who have other obligations, can actually sit down at this game and have fun, and not feel left out of the better parts of the game because we don't have 80 hours a week to devote to the electronic gods of the internet! Thank you Anet for making a game that's actually friendly to regular people!

And you know what, as to all your friends quitting, guess what, Anet doesn't care. That's the beauty of an online game with no monthly fee - they don't have to keep people playing, you've already given them all the money they'll get out of you (with the possible exception of expansions, but oh well). The dangers of this is they have the option of becomming completely out of touch with their players and totally disregarding them, but so far that hasn't happened. What it does mean is they have no reason to bow down to your threats, and at least in this instance, if you and your friends are the type of people quitting the game over this issue, I say good riddance, have a nice life, and enjoy WoW or whatever other money sink you choose to waste your time on.

Fox Reeveheart · Aug 15, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I am 50/50 on this patch.

I LOOOOOVE that everything is normalizing in price

BUT!!!!

I am TOTALLY pissed off on how they pulled this off, if they hadnt have just done it the way they did and made some people instant millionaires, I wouldnt have had a problem with this.

as for runes, I am glad they are normalizing, your just price gouging when you want to sell your rune at 40-50k cause the superior monk rune was 90k.

I can deal with the runes being at their usual max of around 30something-k.

But above that, then its no longer reasonable =\

I been playing about 2 months now maybe, I dont have the ability or luck to have all these AWESOME runes and ectos etc. saved up, so im ALWAYS low on cash.

johnnylange · Aug 15, 2005, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

...In the mean time I'm gonna get on my phone and call the waaaaaaambulance.

ROFLMAO! Thats a good one! Well, I made a comment before that I couldn't understand how a 1k or 2k rune would only sell for 100g. This patch, at least fixes this issue and begins to normalize prices. Even dyes were going for insane amounts. Black was going for like 30k!

Fantus · Aug 15, 2005, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

The fix to the economy was overdue and the basic idea behind it seems to work. Runes are at acceptable prices right now.

That's right, but what good are the most acceptable prices when the traders are constantly out of supply now? I have been trying for DAYS now to get a sup healing rune from a trader and there simply isn't any. Instead of playing the game, players are now besieging the rune traders and constantly refreshing the inventory, hoping that next time they will hit that "Request Quote" button a microsecond faster than anyone else. I don't exactly call this a "fix", more a "destroy fix".

Yes, a fix to the economy was really overdue, but the implementation could have done better (to put it mildly).

Senketsou · Aug 15, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I agree with Sluggs. However Kampfkeks, The way farming works, is a player based economy, before the Trader NPC's were there and you could only buy from them from a higher price then the normal player would sell an item, making the game more player based, rather than NPC based. Also, in all the hours i have played i have yet to see something sell for 800k.

I am saying, ANet did this VERY poorly, setting prices at 100 for everything on the reset.

I suppose this thread only turned into a thread to rip on farmers, and myself... I suppose there never will be any elite status anybody will gain in this game, because of people like those of you, who would rather everything great in this game, be bought for 1 or 2k...

Whats next? Probably a weapon modifier NPC trader, Then you can buy all your weapon mods at a rediculously low price.... am i correct or does nobody else see this coming in the near future? Just so all of these people who are too lazy to put an extra hour into their playing time to get the gold to afford something that those of us have put our time in, to get what everybody else would like to buy. The prices in my opinion shouldnt be based around what ANet beleives they should be, they should be player based, as they were before the patch...

blackbird71 · Aug 15, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senketsou

I suppose this thread only turned into a thread to rip on farmers, and myself... I suppose there never will be any elite status anybody will gain in this game, because of people like those of you, who would rather everything great in this game, be bought for 1 or 2k...

There was never supposed to be an "elite" status in this game! You're assuming that GW is just another mmorpg, read the @#$% manual!!! The intent of the game is that someone who just picks it up off the shelf is at no disadvantage to those who have played for months - exactly the opposite of what you are looking for. If you are unhappy with the situation, it's your own fault for not reading what you bought, so go take your money somewhere else that is designed to benefit those who play constantly over others, because you will never find what you want here. It's not that type of game, you might as well go buy a first person shooter and complain that you didn't get a real time strategy. Read the product before you pick it up off the shelf!!!

Senketsou · Aug 15, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Whatever, I'm sure in given time that will change...

zwitterion · Aug 15, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

hehe. I've attracted quite a number of friends to this game with lines like "it's not an mmorpg" and "there is no grinding". That's what I love about it; it's a game, pure and simple, that you can pick up, spend a bit of (minimally repetitive) time with and enjoy competitively for its (i think) enjoyable skill-based mechanisms. Ironically, because I like it so much, I've probably spent as much time in it as I might have an mmo but that's beside the point. Did ANet lose players over their economy decisions? sure, but those decisions keep the product in a form which regularly attracts more players than it disillusions. Do the math on that economic decision...

blackbird71 · Aug 15, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senketsou

Whatever, I'm sure in given time that will change...

You go on thinking that, just don't come whining here when you're dissapointed- Anet said what this game was at the start, if you don't believe them, that's you're problem, it's not your place to change the entire direction of the game. You knew what the game was when you bought it, or should have known if you bothered to check it out at all, and just because the game remains what it said it would be, you have no place to complain. There is no advantage for those who have played longer, there never was supposed to be. Why else do you think you can make a PvP character already maxed out at lvl 20? The game is what it is, don't whine because it does exactly what the devs said it would do. You won't find what you're looking for here. If you want to lord over people the fact that you have no life and are willing to waste all your time on a computer game, you are going to have to go somewhere else, it's not going to happen here.

Ashika · Aug 15, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Alrighty, I read most, but not all of the posts. I'm surprised by the number of intelligent posts here! Seems to be more than usual.

I'm a farmer. I run the solo monk build and I farm. Why? Well, I want a lot of gold, but much more so, I want to find cool gold items. Sure collector's items are pretty dang good, but I really want gold stuff. Anywayz, let's not get off topic

So up until the patch I had been farming a good deal.

Then I found what everyone else found; low prices. Alright, that really sucked! But then, they were too high to begin with. Ex. 34k for black dye, ALL monk runes. They needed to come down real bad. So congrats to Anet for finally doing something good for the economy (I've played 2 months and am convinced Anet knows absolutely nothing about economics). Proof that I am convinced Anet knows absolutely nothing about economics is the method in which they changed the prices; all at once. BRILLIANT!

So now we have affordable Sup runes that are never in stock. Well, at least I was one of those who grabbed some runes while they were still there. I've got what I need. Now I need to think of how others will feel. Those who noticed the price drop must have been very happy...right up to the point where the Trader mentioned the silly little out of stock situation. Yeah, you ain't getting that sup rune baby

Go find an opportunist who will sell it to you for 10x it's value. At least you can find monk runes for a good deal.

So I come from the group who was hurt financially by this patch, but I realize that it is a good change. But like all things that deal with the economy, Anet will never do it right. Let's just hope that Sup rune prices will steadily increase and hold at a reasonable price. Then you will actually be able to find some in stock.

Ahh I feel I should elaborate, since several of you believe that the current prices are reasonable. Let's see, by your logic, a new player should be able to pick up some sup runes, since Anet wants an equal playing field. Anet also wants a mock RL economy (supply and demand). Anet doesn't understand that you CANNOT have BOTH. If you want sup runes to be at a reasonable price for those new players, you have to have unlimited supply and a set price or price range. By supply and demand, sup rune prices were probably close to equilibrium point before the patch. So how do I know, for a fact, that prices are not reasonable? Go try and buy any sup rune. It ain’t available.

It’s sad that Anet continually screws up the economy. I enjoy economics and currently am studying it in University…which is probably why I also enjoy playing the trade game. But Anet specifically said that this wasn’t a grind-fest; that new and old players would be fairly equal, so one should be able to extrapolate that this really is a skill-based game. Wait, didn’t Anet say something about that? Oh yeah, they say it all the time!

What did I do after the patch? I picked up my old Me/E that I had abandoned a long while back and had a lot of fun running through missions and quests. Now I play around with my build while trying to advance and gain more skills. Hmm, Anet creates economy patch, farmer quits farming and starts playing with skills and missions. By George (not Bush), I think they did something right for the first time since creating the game!!!!!

Senketsou · Aug 16, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I can highly agree in what you said, however im still not happy with the economy... I completely gave up on runes, ecto's, shard's im just gonna sell my hard earned shards at the normal 10k, and go on knowing that all my superior runes were turned to dust, and put up with the un-ascended people in FoW trying to group up saying they wanna buy their armor.... seeing as everybody had the chance to buy the ectoplasms and shards at a low price.

A side note to whoever said im upset because i wasnt online at the time of the reset, and didnt get to buy everything? For the record i was online, and honestly thought it was a disgrace to the creators of this game for the way they put the patch into effect... The way the people reacted were more-over immature stating "Oh get the ecto's before the noobs buy any, then the economy will be messed up"... Sad to say, if ANet would have set the prices as they had originally been in the game, and had them set at that price, the economy wouldnt have been messed up.

Again im not gonna say 75k to 99k for a sup monk rune was the right price. However neither is 1.4k or 4k...

Mike Legend · Aug 16, 2005, 11:56 AM // 11:56

I'd just like to say that I farm all the time, but only because I want to find myself a better weapon or focus item than I have now. I've got about 60k in the bank, which is more than enough to actually play the game to its fullest, so that's what I do. I go online, meet up with my guildmates, and have a laugh storming my way around the map burning things in the hope that the +30 Health +1 Fire Magic +12 Energy Flame Artifact that i crave will one day appear at the feet of a dead Grawl...or something.

Isn't this what the game is supposed to be about? It's always nice when you find something that you can sell, but I sell all the nice max weapons I find for between 1k and 3k, cos at the end of the day I don't need them, and I'm priveleged enough to be able to find them semi-regularly so I can make about 6k in an evening if I'm lucky. So, by the end of a week, I could have made maybe 30k-40k if I farm every day...that's plenty of cash for any normal player, isn't it?

This obsession with being "über" and having 900k in the bank or whatever is depressing. I'd bet all my remaining 60k that someone with 900k in the bank doesn't enjoy the game more than me.

Dralon · Aug 16, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

I agree with Zero, this whole fake supply and demand bs just plain sucks period.

Hehe, it is a fake world. Why not make up a fake supply and demand. With unlimited gold supplies (unlike the real world) you can't make a reall supply and demand system anyway.

ubersoldat · Aug 16, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

i had about 50 major/sup runes and then the damn rune trader was made. before i could have sold them and would have been rich but now its like 100 for some superior. i agree that it should be changed 500 minor, 5k majo, 15k superior

Ashika · Aug 16, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I would much prefer a modified S&D economy. Set min/max prices for runes to be 100/500 for minor, 1k/5k for major, and 10k/20k for superior. Set buy back prices to be 80% for minor, 75% major, and 50-66% (based on S&D, varies daily) for superior. Peeps really shouldn't be wasting time trading minor runes to others. So that's why 80% buy back. 50-66% buy-back range for superior would encourage some P2P trade while still offering reasonable prices for those who desire a quick trade.

At least the Dye trader seems to be corrected.